• From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to All on Mon Apr 11 13:10:00 2022
    At a White House press conference today, the Biden administration officially announced the nomination of Steve Dettelbach for ATF Director and new ATF regulations aimed at the home manufacturing of firearms.

    Dettelbach, a former classmate of Barack Obama who has been enthusiastically endorsed by anti-2A groups like Everytown and Giffords, is the Biden Administration's attempt to appoint someone with the same radical values as David Chipman, but with a less embarrassing public paper trail.

    The White House also announced the final rule on so-called "ghost guns"
    that will classify certain parts or combinations of parts as full-on firearms.

    These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Thumper on Tue Apr 12 07:02:00 2022
    Thumper wrote to All <=-

    These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god damned often.

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something
    deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

    Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and modification
    in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.



    ... Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Apr 13 07:06:09 2022
    Re: Re:
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Thumper on Tue Apr 12 2022 07:02 am

    Thumper wrote to All <=-

    These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god damned often.

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

    Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and modification in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.



    ... Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force

    As a matter of fact, politicians don't care if there is crime or shootings or four horsemen of the Apocalypse ravaging the country, since bad stuff happens to the poor but not to them. Most of the time they do something for the good of the people, there is a clear hidden reason. If it actually helps people it is accidental.

    The new Spanish tax on sweet drinks comes to mind. The argument for imposing it was that it was aimed at reducing comsumption of drinks with excess sugar. In reality, the tax was applied to a lot of drinks with no sugar. They used fear from sugar as an excuse for pushing a law that gave them more power of the entirety of the drink industry and affected a lot of manufacturers who had nothing to do with the alleged excuse.

    Surely, you see how this works.

    If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered guns have been manufactured and used for one of those in an underground workshop. I bet not many. Spain is an example of a country with a tight supply of commercial weapon parts, which makes it the sort of place in which baddies would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground blacksmiths, baddies main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrupt law enforcers an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

    Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Wed Apr 13 23:24:00 2022
    Re: Re:
    By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Apr 13 2022 07:06 am

    Re: Re:
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Thumper on Tue Apr 12 2022 07:02 am

    Thumper wrote to All <=-

    These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent ter like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agen

    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becomi normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god damned often.

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitutio

    Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and modificatio in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.



    ... Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force

    As a matter of fact, politicians don't care if there is crime or shootings o four horsemen of the Apocalypse ravaging the country, since bad stuff happen to the poor but not to them. Most of the time they do something for the go of the people, there is a clear hidden reason. If it actually helps people i is accidental.

    The new Spanish tax on sweet drinks comes to mind. The argument for imposing was that it was aimed at reducing comsumption of drinks with excess sugar. I reality, the tax was applied to a lot of drinks with no sugar. They used fea from sugar as an excuse for pushing a law that gave them more power of the entirety of the drink industry and affected a lot of manufacturers who had nothing to do with the alleged excuse.

    Surely, you see how this works.

    If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered g have been manufactured and used for one of those in an underground workshop. bet not many. Spain is an example of a country with a tight supply of commercial weapon parts, which makes it the sort of place in which baddies would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground blacksmiths, baddies main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrup law enforcers an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

    Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken


    Home made firearms are legal as long as you're making them for personal use. manufacturing for profit is illegal.

    Regarding criminal activity with "ghost guns," they're not actual acts of viol ence. They are arrests of individuals who are prohibited from legally owning
    a firearm getting caught with one. Home made firearms are nothing new. The difference is people can buy CNC mini mills that fit on a table top that do
    all the precision work.

    Years ago I saw a builder's blog where the gunsmith bought a shovel at the local big box hardware store, and used a bending brake, a saw, a drill and a hammer cut and bend the shovel scoop into an AK receiver. Excess metal used t o create smaller pieces of the receiver that required welding in place. The buttstock was made from the handle. the rest of the gun was surplus parts
    that require no special paperwork to own. Most military arms made aroiund
    and after WWII were made of stamped pieces spot welded together. the complex parts were firing components, the bolt, and the rifled barrel.

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  • From Kaelon@VERT to Thumper on Fri Apr 29 11:00:04 2022
    Re:
    By: Thumper to All on Mon Apr 11 2022 01:10 pm

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

    Completely agree, Thumper. Even though I have not yet been trained in firearms, I am a student of history (even got my degree in it over two decades ago!), and appreciate how not only did the widespread availability of arms ensure the British were defeated during the American Revolutionary War, but also dissuaded both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union from envisaging an invasion of the United States.

    It is a strategy that is being increasingly deployed in the Ukraine against Russian aggression and will be part and parcel of what keeps that country and its people free and independent.
    -=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 14:04:00 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Kaelon to Thumper on Fri Apr 29 2022 11:00 am

    Re:
    By: Thumper to All on Mon Apr 11 2022 01:10 pm

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

    Completely agree, Thumper. Even though I have not yet been trained in firear ed during the American Revolutionary War, but also dissuaded both Nazi Germa

    It is a strategy that is being increasingly deployed in the Ukraine against -=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-


    April 19th marked the date of the beginning of the US Revolution, the battle
    of Lexington and Concord. The objective of the British landing force was
    to sieze the powder magazine in Conchord. That was a decisive moment since
    the Redcoats couldn't bring the volume of powder that matched what was at the armory. One of the volunteer's only job that night was stay at the magazine and burn it down if it looked like the Redcoats could capture it.

    Manufacturing and private ownership in the States was also a must have in the early days due to the king not having the money or sympathy to protect the
    new colonists from natives and aggressors from other countries. Telling the subjects to arm themselves was a critical move towards not needing a king and his army.

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  • From Kaelon@VERT to Moondog on Sun May 1 15:14:02 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 2022 02:04 pm

    April 19th marked the date of the beginning of the US Revolution, the battle of Lexington and Concord. The objective of the British landing force was
    to sieze the powder magazine in Conchord. That was a decisive moment since the Redcoats couldn't bring the volume of powder that matched what was at the armory. One of the volunteer's only job that night was stay at the magazine and burn it down if it looked like the Redcoats could capture it.

    This is wonderful. Thanks for sharing this! Although I live on the South Shore of Massachusetts now, I grew up in Florida and other than the names of the battles and the underlying political and economic motivations of the founders, I never have appreciated the start of the American Revolutionary War until I moved up here two decades ago. I'm just minutes away from Lexington and Concord, and should really partake much more of this rich history.

    For the Ukrainians, arming its entire population has been a critical moment and inspiring for Americans to recall our own foundations in freedom. I hope that, in time, people will look to the preservation and inevitable victory of Ukraine as a re-founding of global freedom everywhere.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Mon May 2 00:11:00 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Kaelon to Moondog on Sun May 01 2022 03:14 pm

    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 2022 02:04 pm

    April 19th marked the date of the beginning of the US Revolution, the bat of Lexington and Concord. The objective of the British landing force was to sieze the powder magazine in Conchord. That was a decisive moment sin the Redcoats couldn't bring the volume of powder that matched what was at the armory. One of the volunteer's only job that night was stay at the magazine and burn it down if it looked like the Redcoats could capture it

    This is wonderful. Thanks for sharing this! Although I live on the South S iated the start of the American Revolutionary War until I moved up here two

    For the Ukrainians, arming its entire population has been a critical moment ng of global freedom everywhere.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    Check out Project Appleseed when you have a chance. It's a two day marksmanship course tied in with history lessons specifically from the battle of Lexington and Conchord. If you never shot a rifle, they bring spares and y ou are the best candidate for training, and if you have shot, it's still good training. You'll learn to shoot with a rifle sling while standing, kneeling, and prone at 25 yards, and later stages include shooting at smaller scaled targets to simulate shooting at longer distances. One cool target is a Morgan's Shingle, which is the size of a postage stamp to recreate the size
    of a head at 250 yards when hung at 25 yards. Captain Daniel Morgan was
    given command of two rifle companies supporting General Washington, and a pre-requisite to join was one chance to hit a wooden roofing shingle the size of an officer's head.

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  • From Kaelon@VERT to Moondog on Mon May 2 07:39:29 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 12:11 am

    Check out Project Appleseed when you have a chance. It's a two day marksmanship course tied in with history lessons specifically from the battle of Lexington and Conchord. If you never shot a rifle, they bring spares and y ou are the best candidate for training, and if you have shot, it's still good training. You'll learn to shoot with a rifle sling while standing, kneeling, and prone at 25 yards, and later stages include shooting at smaller scaled targets to simulate shooting at longer distances.

    Thanks so much for this recommendation! I checked them out at https://appleseedinfo.org and was delighted to find out that they have a monthly course here in Massachusetts at the Harvard Sports Yard. Thrilling! I'm surprised that, as a Freemason, I've never heard about this before from other brothers, but I will be sure to share this at Lodge the next time I go.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Mon May 2 21:57:00 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Kaelon to Moondog on Mon May 02 2022 07:39 am

    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 12:11 am

    Check out Project Appleseed when you have a chance. It's a two day marksmanship course tied in with history lessons specifically from the battle of Lexington and Conchord. If you never shot a rifle, they bring spares and y ou are the best candidate for training, and if you have shot it's still good training. You'll learn to shoot with a rifle sling while standing, kneeling, and prone at 25 yards, and later stages include shoot at smaller scaled targets to simulate shooting at longer distances.

    Thanks so much for this recommendation! I checked them out at https://apples ver heard about this before from other brothers, but I will be sure to share _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    A couple of years ago there was some falling out in the Appleseed circles,
    and a second group called Revere's Riders grew out of it. I'm not familiar with the drama that started it or what the major differences are, but the Appleseed guys I know endorse trying either program and are good friends with the guys who split off.

    In the searching I've briefly done there were arguments about growth or expand ing the training provided by Appleseed, and a bunch of trainers and facilitators walked out and made the program how they wanted it.

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  • From Kaelon@VERT to Moondog on Tue May 3 08:12:53 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 09:57 pm

    A couple of years ago there was some falling out in the Appleseed circles, and a second group called Revere's Riders grew out of it. I'm not familiar with the drama that started it or what the major differences are, but the Appleseed guys I know endorse trying either program and are good friends with the guys who split off.

    In the searching I've briefly done there were arguments about growth or expand ing the training provided by Appleseed, and a bunch of trainers and facilitators walked out and made the program how they wanted it.

    In my view, as long as there is a program that teaches both civic responsibility and promotes responsible gun ownership through training, safety, and marksmanship, that's the sort of program that I want to get involved in and introduce my son into. There's a lot to be said for appreciating the awesome power and tremendous responsibility inherent in owning and using a weapon, but that requires training, education, and proper orientation to the right way of doing things. And this is deeply entrenched in an American History that just isn't taught anymore, and hasn't since before I was born.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Wed May 4 00:40:00 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Kaelon to Moondog on Tue May 03 2022 08:12 am

    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 09:57 pm

    A couple of years ago there was some falling out in the Appleseed circles and a second group called Revere's Riders grew out of it. I'm not famili with the drama that started it or what the major differences are, but the Appleseed guys I know endorse trying either program and are good friends with the guys who split off.

    In the searching I've briefly done there were arguments about growth or expand ing the training provided by Appleseed, and a bunch of trainers a facilitators walked out and made the program how they wanted it.

    In my view, as long as there is a program that teaches both civic responsibi e's a lot to be said for appreciating the awesome power and tremendous respo
    an American History that just isn't taught anymore, and hasn't since before _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    Everyone is familiar with the poem about the ride of Paul Revere, however the events in real life didn't work out as told. He wasn't the only messenger - they had redundant riders. Considering the people with subjects of the king, yelling the British are coming would make little sense. Revere was caught
    and interrogated, and told them everything because events were already in motion. The officer took his horse and left him to be guarded. His escape
    was less than spectacular. The guards wandered off and didn't take him with them.

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  • From Kaelon@VERT to Moondog on Wed May 4 11:01:21 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 12:40 am

    Everyone is familiar with the poem about the ride of Paul Revere, however the events in real life didn't work out as told. He wasn't the only messenger - they had redundant riders. Considering the people with subjects of the king, yelling the British are coming would make little sense. Revere was caught
    and interrogated, and told them everything because events were already in motion. The officer took his horse and left him to be guarded. His escape was less than spectacular. The guards wandered off and didn't take him with them.

    While this particular tangent I am about to convey probably belongs best in DOVE-Net Entertainment, I can't help myself because it's relevant. In the TV series, "Turn," there is such an interesting contrast between the sanitized version of the American Revolutionary events that school children are taught, and the actual ruthlessness and intelligence operation undertaken by Continental forces under Washington.

    I feel that the public should be educated broadly on both the fundamentals of American History - what Benjamin Franklin described of 'Americans' as being a "rougher, simpler, more violent, more enterprising, less refined" people. He concluded that "we were a new nationality, and thus required a new nation." The freedom guaranteed only by arms is at the heart of what made our pioneering colonial forefathers truly independent in nationality and sovereignty.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Wed May 4 23:04:00 2022
    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Kaelon to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 11:01 am

    Re: re: the American Traditio
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 12:40 am

    Everyone is familiar with the poem about the ride of Paul Revere, however the events in real life didn't work out as told. He wasn't the only messenger - they had redundant riders. Considering the people with subje of the king, yelling the British are coming would make little sense. Rev was caught
    and interrogated, and told them everything because events were already in motion. The officer took his horse and left him to be guarded. His esca was less than spectacular. The guards wandered off and didn't take him w them.

    While this particular tangent I am about to convey probably belongs best in Revolutionary events that school children are taught, and the actual ruthles

    I feel that the public should be educated broadly on both the fundamentals o re a new nationality, and thus required a new nation." The freedom guarante _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    The rattlesnake on the Gadsen flag came from Franklin's writings. It is one
    of the few animals that warns you before you act too foolishly. It will not attack unless provoked, and even then it's rattle is fair warning to whoever doesn't back down. Step on the snake and you will get hurt.

    ---
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  • From Kaelon@VERT/BTTMLSS to Moondog on Thu May 5 12:23:00 2022
    The rattlesnake on the Gadsen flag came from Franklin's writings. It is o of the few animals that warns you before you act too foolishly. It will n attack unless provoked, and even then it's rattle is fair warning to whoev doesn't back down. Step on the snake and you will get hurt.

    Yes! Well said.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Jun 26 13:12:00 2022
    POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote to THUMPER <=-

    These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god
    damned often.

    Interesting point... Of course you know the FBI definition of 'mass
    shooting?' Before you look it up, think in YOUR mind what the term
    makes you think of...

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something
    deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

    Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and
    modification in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.

    I don't know about case law, but it's NOT illegal to construct your
    own firearm for your use. Not to sell, by any means, but for you
    to make one. Now owning a firearm if you're otherwise illegal to do
    so (convicted felon, etc.) is a seperate crime.






    ... Wanted a pair of watch dogs, named the pups Timex and Bulova.
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to ARELOR on Sun Jun 26 13:15:00 2022
    ARELOR wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered guns have been manufactured and used for one of those in
    an underground workshop. I bet not many. Spain is an example of a
    country with a tight supply of commercial weapon parts, which makes it
    the sort of place in which baddies would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground blacksmiths, baddies
    main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrupt law enforcers
    an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

    Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.

    Yeah - the rhetoric is that 'ghost guns' are behing used in crimes and
    it's impossible to trace them. BUT - I've seen NOTHING in that regard
    in any reported data. I'm a legal gun owner. If I decide to manufacture
    my own custom build, I'm in no more danger of using it for a crime than
    any of the other guns I own.

    By the same token, a 'crook' that likes to use a gun for armed robbery
    or in a gang shooting? Why would they assemble parts at home that need
    time, attention and elbow grease when they can just buy one on the black market, or steal one?




    ... As my grandfather had said in his last words, "A TRUCK!"
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to MOONDOG on Sun Jun 26 13:37:00 2022
    MOONDOG wrote to ARELOR <=-

    Regarding criminal activity with "ghost guns," they're not actual acts
    of viol ence. They are arrests of individuals who are prohibited from legally owning a firearm getting caught with one. Home made firearms
    are nothing new. The difference is people can buy CNC mini mills that
    fit on a table top that do all the precision work.

    Much like 3d printers weren't a thing you could 'own at home' until just
    a few years ago...

    Years ago I saw a builder's blog where the gunsmith bought a shovel at
    the local big box hardware store, and used a bending brake, a saw, a
    drill and a hammer cut and bend the shovel scoop into an AK receiver. Excess metal used t o create smaller pieces of the receiver that
    required welding in place. The buttstock was made from the handle.
    the rest of the gun was surplus parts that require no special paperwork
    to own. Most military arms made aroiund and after WWII were made of stamped pieces spot welded together. the complex parts were firing components, the bolt, and the rifled barrel.

    Yep - a common 'concern' is that if they want to make 'any parts that can
    be made into a gun' restricted then shovels, pipes, etc.





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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to MOONDOG on Sun Jun 26 13:43:00 2022
    MOONDOG wrote to KAELON <=-


    Manufacturing and private ownership in the States was also a must have
    in the early days due to the king not having the money or sympathy to protect the new colonists from natives and aggressors from other countries. Telling the subjects to arm themselves was a critical move towards not needing a king and his army.

    Add to this discussion the fact that "civilians shouldn't own military hardware" is another misnomer... Civilians WERE the military, and they
    could own canons, battleships, you name it!




    ... If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Jun 28 16:47:00 2022
    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god
    damned often.

    Interesting point... Of course you know the FBI definition of 'mass shooting?' Before you look it up, think in YOUR mind what the term
    makes you think of...

    In my mind it is when the shooter may have a specific target or two in
    mind but then shoots multiple persons beyond his target, or when someone
    just shoots indescriminantly into a crowd/building, etc., without any
    specific target and shoots multiple persons.

    However, in many recent lists, the press (and BBS posters) have included at least one school shooting where the kid shot the two people he apparently
    meant to, and no one else, despite having opportunity to do so.

    I don't know the FBI's definition, but apparently the press / non-2A
    definition is more than one person shot.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Where are you going?

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  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Dumas Walker on Wed Jun 29 10:45:31 2022
    Re: Re: Re:
    By: Dumas Walker to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Jun 28 2022 04:47 pm

    I don't know the FBI's definition, but apparently the press / non-2A definition is more than one person shot.

    The FBI does not define mass shootings, but instead has a classification of "serial murder" which is an incident where four or more people are killed, which may not necessarily involve gunfire. Most media considers four or more persons shot (not necessarily fatalities) to be a "mass shooting"

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Jun 28 16:09:00 2022
    Re: Re: Re:
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to ARELOR on Sun Jun 26 2022 01:15 pm

    ARELOR wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered guns have been manufactured and used for one of those in an underground workshop. I bet not many. Spain is an example of a country with a tight supply of commercial weapon parts, which makes it the sort of place in which baddies would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground blacksmiths, baddies main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrupt law enforcers an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

    Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.

    Yeah - the rhetoric is that 'ghost guns' are behing used in crimes and
    it's impossible to trace them. BUT - I've seen NOTHING in that regard
    in any reported data. I'm a legal gun owner. If I decide to manufacture
    my own custom build, I'm in no more danger of using it for a crime than
    any of the other guns I own.

    By the same token, a 'crook' that likes to use a gun for armed robbery
    or in a gang shooting? Why would they assemble parts at home that need
    time, attention and elbow grease when they can just buy one on the black market, or steal one?




    ... As my grandfather had said in his last words, "A TRUCK!"

    I agree. Black market pistols are abundant. Sub $200 gunssell for $500 or more in Detroit from the back of a car.

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